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#1 2011-06-16 22:52:13

admin
Administrator
Registered: 2007-03-29
Website

How critical is PowerPC support?

Hi,

we're moving to Xcode 4.1 and we don't know how long we'll be able to trick the development suite to support the PPC architecture.

Please, let us know the percentage of ppc based Macs in your organisation.

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#2 2011-06-17 10:00:58

ramuntcho
Member
Registered: 2008-12-04

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

Hi,

Here in Geneva (Switzerland) all our macs in public schools have intel architecture.

:-))  Christian

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#3 2011-06-17 13:35:41

admin
Administrator
Registered: 2007-03-29
Website

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

Full intel and full 10.6? that's great :)

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#4 2011-06-17 18:09:54

ramuntcho
Member
Registered: 2008-12-04

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

Yes, all in 10.6 :-))

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#5 2011-06-20 05:54:59

PaintedTurtle
Member
Registered: 2010-06-27

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

I'm a consultant, so it depends on the organization. But, I'd take your poll results with a bit caution.

Some of the organizations for which PowerPC support is likely to be most critical are poor school districts. That is where PowerPC Macs are likely to still be in use in moderate volumes. In my country, and I suspect some others as well, educators who might respond to this survey are on break till the end of summer.

But even outside of education, results very. One of my non-educational clients wouldn't notice the loss of PowerPC support. Yet, I have another, who's Deploy Studio Server is of necessity a PowerPC G5. (A charity organization, and it is is the fastest Mac they have.) And nearly all the machines that they are imaging are Power Macs. So for them, it would hurt a lot.

I'm not a programmer, but I did notice some comments that seem relevant to the problem, and suggest a workaround at:
     [url]http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5333490/how-can-we-restore-ppc-ppc64-as-well-as-full-10-4-10-5-sdk-support-to-xcode-4[/url]

If it does have to happen, would any compromise position be possible. Like maybe nightly builds are Intel only, but stable releases are both? If that isn't possible, can the code base be available so that the community can support it?

Last edited by PaintedTurtle (2011-06-20 06:30:24)

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#6 2011-06-20 09:19:09

MagerValp
Member
Registered: 2010-01-26

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

Even though we still have a few PPC machines, I'm all for dropping support. It just makes it easier for us to explain why we can't support old hardware and that they regularly need to invest in new equipment.

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#7 2011-06-20 17:00:05

jakov
Member
From: Delft, Netherlands
Registered: 2008-04-22

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

I second the last poster, we are almost completely on Intel-hardware and Snow Leopard.

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#8 2011-06-20 21:12:37

Meat
Member
From: SF CA US
Registered: 2009-02-04

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

I third...

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#9 2011-06-20 21:22:11

admin
Administrator
Registered: 2007-03-29
Website

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

We're too. We have no more ppc hardware for a while but it should be fine until next major OS release.
The last nightly has been built with 10.7dp4 with Xcode 4.1 and gcc4.2 (the Xcode 3 one).
We've no ppc users feedback for the moment.

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#10 2011-06-21 05:50:08

PaintedTurtle
Member
Registered: 2010-06-27

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

> admin wrote:

> We've no ppc users feedback for the moment.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Yes, we are using Deploy Studio to support Power PC Macs. And we would like to continue to do so. Currently, the server is a G5 running Leopard Server. If we had to, we could probably move the server to an Intel. But the clients are PowerPC. So, we would want to continue to image PowerPC clients.

Were you asking about discontinuing  running the DS server on PowerPC? Or were you talking about no longer supporting them as imaging targets, or both?

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#11 2011-06-21 20:50:26

Meat
Member
From: SF CA US
Registered: 2009-02-04

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

You have a working imaging server for PPC machines. Can you sequester it and prevent changes to it?

How long do you suppose you'll be supporting PPC machines? Until the last one you have in inventory breaks? Not after this year? Not after next year?

Last edited by Meat (2011-06-21 20:51:20)

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#12 2011-06-21 21:25:17

MagerValp
Member
Registered: 2010-01-26

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

> Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Yes, we are using Deploy Studio to support Power PC Macs. And we would like to continue
> to do so. Currently, the server is a G5 running Leopard Server. If we had to, we could probably move the server to an
> Intel. But the clients are PowerPC. So, we would want to continue to image PowerPC clients.

RC126-3 isn't going anywhere though and will continue to work just as well as it does today... :)

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#13 2011-06-21 23:03:56

admin
Administrator
Registered: 2007-03-29
Website

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

If the last nightly works on ppc hardware, we should be fine for one more year.

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#14 2011-06-22 05:32:01

PaintedTurtle
Member
Registered: 2010-06-27

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

That should be great. I'll try to test it this weekend. I do some volunteer work at a not-for-profit, that uses it on PowerMacs.

And if it actually continues to work with PowerPCs for another year, that should be enough time for many of the desired enhancements anyway.

[url]http://www.deploystudio.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?id=2423[/url]

Last edited by PaintedTurtle (2011-06-22 06:48:48)

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#15 2011-06-23 15:37:35

trugg
Member
Registered: 2011-06-23

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

I'm in a similar position with PaintedTurtle... still using Deploy Studio on PowerPCs for donated older Macs being reconditioned for under-resourced organizations.

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#16 2011-06-23 20:56:12

alexjdale
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

My corp has around 1500 Macs, all Intel and 98% 10.6.  We'll be moving to 10.7 as soon as we can.

It's a good time to drop PPC support, since there's not really any movement in the OS/application world.  Folks who need it can use an older DS build.

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#17 2011-06-24 07:58:52

gnarf
Member
Registered: 2008-10-19

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

In our organization all production Macs are Intel-based.
If I have to use an older revision of DS for PPC-Macs I can live with that.
It is however unclear what this dropping PPC support means exactly.
Does it mean that future DS versions are not able to netboot/image/restore a PPC Mac?
Or does it mean that DS server will run on Intel-based Mac only?
Or does it mean both?

And If it is possible to keep PPC support in Xcode 4 using that hack mentioned in stackoverflow website I would vote for keeping support for PPC.

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#18 2011-06-24 14:52:32

PaintedTurtle
Member
Registered: 2010-06-27

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

> admin wrote:

> If the last nightly works on ppc hardware, we should be fine for one more year.

I just tested a restore onto  a PowerPC G4 Mac min using the latest nightly build (NB110621) and it seemed to go fine.

It was a simple restore, so it is possible there is a problem hidden in a task somewhere or something. And, in this case the server was an Intel running Leopard Server. But these results are quite encouraging. So it looks like this build probably still works, even after the tool changes.

Last edited by PaintedTurtle (2011-06-24 14:53:51)

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#19 2011-06-24 22:55:07

admin
Administrator
Registered: 2007-03-29
Website

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

That's good news.
We'll stick to the 10.5 sdk for one year more.

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#20 2011-06-29 14:48:01

anonymousMonk
Member
Registered: 2011-06-29

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

> admin wrote:

> That's good news.
We'll stick to the 10.5 sdk for one year more.

That is good news! My teams also images a fair number of PowerPC Macs. The poster above was right that it's a good time to upgrade to Intel, but that also means we're getting an influx of used PowerPC Macs that we can re-purpose.

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#21 2011-08-08 05:29:00

jcole01
Member
Registered: 2011-08-08

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

I work in IT at school district in Wyoming.  We have dropped support for anything g3 or below as of last year.  We are giving g4's one more year before they're not supported.  We still have many emacs and a lab or two with some ibooks in it.  Anything that helps us convince the principals to dump these aging machines is welcome and as of next year, it won't be an issue anyway.  One more year would be appreciated but not in any way critical for us.

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#22 2011-08-11 15:19:06

mcduff
Member
Registered: 2009-12-08

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

I work in a faculty at University of Waterloo where we have no PPC machines that are touched by DS, so my personal percentage of PPC Macs would be zero. I would guess that is the case for the rest of the Mac administrators on this campus.

But I would echo the comments about school boards. I know that many school boards (including my kids') have old eMacs and such kicking around. I would not even consider the school board a 'poor school district' they merely keep on repurposing hardware until it is dead ;-)

Having said that, the current build of DS is an awesome product that likely can do everything you would want on an older machine. It sounds like you are not dropping PPC support for arbitrary reasons, so I think it sounds reasonable. The only suggestion that I have is that the homepage for DS should have a clear link for older OS (and eventually older processors). Currently the homepage mentions that 10.5.8 is minimum requirement, but does not point to the valid options for the older OSes.

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#23 2011-08-13 04:13:24

PaintedTurtle
Member
Registered: 2010-06-27

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

Your last point about the need for links to older versions is a valid one. Sometimes one can find them with a bit of work. But it would be nice if they just had a page of links to them. And it would be great if source code could also be available. That way we could fix old versions ourselves. Or we could compile newer versions for older hardware.

Your earlier  point about repurposing hardware till it dies is also an excellent and insightful one. That is not only good fiscal stewardship, it is also good environmental stewardship. Waste really is not a trait to be admired.

One of the difficulties of observing good stewardship, is that often the range of products you end up supporting becomes more diverse. And that can end up being harder, than if you only support a small number of the very latest models.

Ironically, some of those additional, new, features may be more valuable/needed by those of use who support an older, more diverse range of machines, than those who support a much smaller model set. So while DS is currently a great product, those of us who support older machines, are hoping for just a few more features before support is discontinued.

Last edited by PaintedTurtle (2011-08-13 04:15:01)

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#24 2011-09-01 01:51:44

Jaharmi
Member
Registered: 2011-07-06

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

I can't speak to an overall percentage of PowerPC systems that I would need to support, but it's small and likely to be in pockets where I wouldn't hear about things until they are broken.

However, my current DeployStudio Server system is a Power Mac G5, so I would have an immediate problem if newer DS releases required Intel Macs on the server side. And I'm starting to use some of the newer features, like conditional workflows, partly because I am new to DS (no legacy baggage other than the PMG5) and partly because the features make sense to me.

However, with Apple now having two full OSes that have no PowerPC support, there is a definite disconnect between my organization's security policy (software must be receiving updates from the vendor) and any continued use of PowerPC Macs (because Leopard is unlikely to have ongoing security or other updates now that Lion is out).

I would definitely like to see links to older versions, and perhaps a comparison table of what features are and are not supported. I'm finding it a little hard to figure out what features are there even in current versions, approaching as a newbie to DS and not having years of experience in these forums.

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#25 2011-09-13 23:02:34

dmnelson
Member
Registered: 2011-04-25

Re: How critical is PowerPC support?

My machines are probably 90%+ Intel so it wouldn't be a huge deal. If DeployStudio dropped PPC support I could just use NetRestore on a 10.4 NBI for PPC until our older machines die or get retired.

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